Discussion for the rest of the novel will be driven by you. Please post your questions, comments, thoughts, opinions and remarks here. Extra points awarded for engaging with one another. ;)
ive read 1984 before i found it a litlle to hard to read last year but since its a second time around I'm finding it a whole lot easier to read. The only problem i have reading this book are all of the vocabulary from the time period it was written in because of all the post world war two vocabuary. I Really domlike how the book is structured to compare the fictonal storyline with todays political problems facing each country evryday, helps me understand the political process in totalaterion ruled countries
I foiund the book to be relatively confusing, and i still dont understand the whole newspeak thing. But i really like Orwells style of writing, and I love the meaning of this book. I look forward to finishing the book, and i will ask questions when they come up.
Thanks, Jay. I really appreciate the leadership you've demonstrated here.
I'm interested in your perspective on the vocabulary. I don't find it to be particularly antiquated (old), but I could be wrong. Are there any specific words we could look at? I think the diction (word choice) may be a little more adult than in other books you've studied in school.
When I see (or hear) a word I don't know, I don't immediately look it up. I wait until I see the same word crop up a few times, then I figure it's worth my time to look it up.
Anyhow, your comments about Orwell's insights into totalitarianism are truly incredible. What I have a hard time understanding is how he could see things so clearly as they were happening or before they happened. It is easy to look back and see that he was largely right.
I have been reading 1984 for a few days now and a few questions came to mind such as why did Winston believe that the proles had the power to fight Big Brother?.Why now after all these years is he looking for answers? and why do they class the proles as animals it was as if Big Brother fair them in some way.
Sara, thanks for your courage and your honesty. Several people in the class have found audio versions of the novel (I believe there are even people reading it on YouTube).
Can anyone comment on whether this makes the novel easier to understand?
Also, Sara, come visit me in my "office." Bring your 1984 and we'll talk all about it.
To sams question, i havent got far enough to know about "proles" but i think winston is just now looking for answers because he is just now realizing exactly whats going on. Possibly because of the place he works. After doing that for so long you have to question if everything that is going on is right.
the set up is kind of ridiculous but the voice is alright; easy to follow along. you just have to keep track of where you leave off because it doesnt go by chapters.
Bailey, I like the way you describe Winston going through some sort of an "awakening." I suppose I wish that all of you either have had or will have an awakening of your own.
The English language debate is on television tonight and the current Prime Minister has a lot to defend. We all like to think that the people who are managing our affairs (the government) are doing a great job, but shouldn't we keep an eye on them to be sure?
Nathan, you raise a point that Winston himself contemplates. He realizes that if there is any hope of a revolution, it lies with the proles. Ironically, he thinks, they can never rebel until they are self-conscious and they can never be self-conscious until they rebel. Big Brother has them right where he wants them.
The outer party plays a large role in keeping the proles dowd, using their greater education to maintain the status quo. The fancy word for this is hegemony-the mechanism in place to preserve the balance of power.
when winston says everything tastes or smells different is he dreaming or off in another world? , or is he describing how bad it felt being in the situation he was in ? not being allowed to remember anything would be hard to do . especially after what winston was witnessing.
I find the story hard to follow, probally because i havent kept up, but I find it to be an interesting story which is the only reason ive been working to catch up! unlike of mice and men which i found to be very boring at the least.
Julia seem to be one of those people who is bold and brave bacause Winston keep saying that they are dead while Julia is letting him know that they are alive. O`Brien seems like a very cunning man because he is the only one that is asking the questions and whenever Winston ask he gives him a form a code for example:that a man will come and give him the brief case with THE BOOK and it would seem as if O`Brien is drawing information from Winston.
Great observations, Sam. There is no doubt that O'Brien has a magnetic personality, which likely accounts for why he has the job he has. Winston should know better than to trust him but, I suppose, he is powerless to overcome Winston's charisma.
Mitch, I'm glad you are still moving forward with the novel. This is one that is best digested slowly. Still, we don't want to drag this out until June. Everyone should be at the halfway point (Book 2, Ch. 6) following the Easter Break.
How accurately portrayed is 1984? It seemed as he was ahead of his time. Also the victory cigarettes, gin and where he lived, were not a victory at all it was s sense of hope. But only the government or big brother were the victorious one's.
These are good observations, Nathan. Notice the irony in the name 'Victory.' The country is at perpetual war and the brand, to use a colloquial term, sucks. Meanwhile, inner party members live in luxury the outer party members (let alone the proles) can't even imagine.
I just read a passage that I wanted to bring into the discussion. It explains why I believe so strongly in doing 1984 with high school students:
"...if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away." -from Goldstein's Book
Kasi, Mr. Charrington is the shopowner from whom Winston rents an appartment.
Kristen, the ending you refer to is a fairly dark judgement of human strength. Quite simply, neither one is able to resist the torture. They also knew it would happen even before they were arrested. Julia tells Winston: "Everyone confesses in the end." The uplifting part of the whole affair is that they still chose to have their fling. Even knowing they couldn't enjoy their romance for long, and that it would end very painfully, they still chose it.
I dont really understand how Winston can continuously think about how life used to be, and hes always wondering if life was always this way. But yet he just continues his life, he doesn't really try to change anything...
A darker theme in the book would also have to be that whoever holds the power is usually corrupt. In 1984, Big Brother abuses their power by controlling people and changing people into what they think are fit citizens. They don't care about what the people want or think. The idea of this book is sad because even though it might not resort to having a telescreen in their living room, many places around the world live in constant fear of what to do or think without getting caught.
Outstanding, Hannah. You are making great connections between the novel and the world we live in. With any luck humanity will move beyond this sometimes brutal and oppressive phase.
Kyle, Winston does dare to rebel and have something of a life with Julia. That is an act of resistance. On the other hand, he doesn't try to start a movement or organize the proles, which is what it would take to actually succeed.
ive read 1984 before i found it a litlle to hard to read last year but since its a second time around I'm finding it a whole lot easier to read. The only problem i have reading this book are all of the vocabulary from the time period it was written in because of all the post world war two vocabuary. I Really domlike how the book is structured to compare the fictonal storyline with todays political problems facing each country evryday, helps me understand the political process in totalaterion ruled countries
ReplyDeleteI foiund the book to be relatively confusing, and i still dont understand the whole newspeak thing. But i really like Orwells style of writing, and I love the meaning of this book. I look forward to finishing the book, and i will ask questions when they come up.
ReplyDeleteim totally lost . :(
ReplyDeleteThanks, Jay. I really appreciate the leadership you've demonstrated here.
ReplyDeleteI'm interested in your perspective on the vocabulary. I don't find it to be particularly antiquated (old), but I could be wrong. Are there any specific words we could look at? I think the diction (word choice) may be a little more adult than in other books you've studied in school.
When I see (or hear) a word I don't know, I don't immediately look it up. I wait until I see the same word crop up a few times, then I figure it's worth my time to look it up.
Anyhow, your comments about Orwell's insights into totalitarianism are truly incredible. What I have a hard time understanding is how he could see things so clearly as they were happening or before they happened. It is easy to look back and see that he was largely right.
I have been reading 1984 for a few days now and a few questions came to mind such as why did Winston believe that the proles had the power to fight Big Brother?.Why now after all these years is he looking for answers? and why do they class the proles as animals it was as if Big Brother fair them in some way.
ReplyDeleteSara, thanks for your courage and your honesty. Several people in the class have found audio versions of the novel (I believe there are even people reading it on YouTube).
ReplyDeleteCan anyone comment on whether this makes the novel easier to understand?
Also, Sara, come visit me in my "office." Bring your 1984 and we'll talk all about it.
Great questions, Sam! And I will answer, but I'd like some of your classmates to have a chance first.
ReplyDeleteTo sams question, i havent got far enough to know about "proles" but i think winston is just now looking for answers because he is just now realizing exactly whats going on. Possibly because of the place he works. After doing that for so long you have to question if everything that is going on is right.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletehere is the audio link i found.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.archive.org/details/George-Orwell-1984-Audio-book
the set up is kind of ridiculous but the voice is alright; easy to follow along. you just have to keep track of where you leave off because it doesnt go by chapters.
Chapter 3 - 2 - 8:22 chapter 4 - 2 - 24:15
Okay, thanks so much.
ReplyDeleteIf there was only one leader of the party, and everyone was upset with the party why don't the people of Oceania just take over the party?
ReplyDeleteBailey, I like the way you describe Winston going through some sort of an "awakening." I suppose I wish that all of you either have had or will have an awakening of your own.
ReplyDeleteThe English language debate is on television tonight and the current Prime Minister has a lot to defend. We all like to think that the people who are managing our affairs (the government) are doing a great job, but shouldn't we keep an eye on them to be sure?
Nathan, you raise a point that Winston himself contemplates. He realizes that if there is any hope of a revolution, it lies with the proles. Ironically, he thinks, they can never rebel until they are self-conscious and they can never be self-conscious until they rebel. Big Brother has them right where he wants them.
The outer party plays a large role in keeping the proles dowd, using their greater education to maintain the status quo. The fancy word for this is hegemony-the mechanism in place to preserve the balance of power.
when winston says everything tastes or smells different is he dreaming or off in another world? , or is he describing how bad it felt being in the situation he was in ? not being allowed to remember anything would be hard to do . especially after what winston was witnessing.
ReplyDeleteI find the story hard to follow, probally because i havent kept up, but I find it to be an interesting story which is the only reason ive been working to catch up! unlike of mice and men which i found to be very boring at the least.
ReplyDeleteJulia seem to be one of those people who is bold and brave bacause Winston keep saying that they are dead while Julia is letting him know that they are alive. O`Brien seems like a very cunning man because he is the only one that is asking the questions and whenever Winston ask he gives him a form a code for example:that a man will come and give him the brief case with THE BOOK and it would seem as if O`Brien is drawing information from Winston.
ReplyDeleteGreat observations, Sam. There is no doubt that O'Brien has a magnetic personality, which likely accounts for why he has the job he has. Winston should know better than to trust him but, I suppose, he is powerless to overcome Winston's charisma.
ReplyDeleteMitch, I'm glad you are still moving forward with the novel. This is one that is best digested slowly. Still, we don't want to drag this out until June. Everyone should be at the halfway point (Book 2, Ch. 6) following the Easter Break.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHow accurately portrayed is 1984? It seemed as he was ahead of his time. Also the victory cigarettes, gin and where he lived, were not a victory at all it was s sense of hope. But only the government or big brother were the victorious one's.
ReplyDeleteThese are good observations, Nathan. Notice the irony in the name 'Victory.' The country is at perpetual war and the brand, to use a colloquial term, sucks. Meanwhile, inner party members live in luxury the outer party members (let alone the proles) can't even imagine.
ReplyDeleteWho's next? :)
I just read a passage that I wanted to bring into the discussion. It explains why I believe so strongly in doing 1984 with high school students:
ReplyDelete"...if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when they had done this, they would sooner or later realize that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away." -from Goldstein's Book
i was wondering whos's Mr charrington in the storry ?
ReplyDeletewhy did they betray eachother ( winston and julia) if they REALLY "loved eachother" ?
ReplyDeleteit makes no sence to me ?
Kasi, Mr. Charrington is the shopowner from whom Winston rents an appartment.
ReplyDeleteKristen, the ending you refer to is a fairly dark judgement of human strength. Quite simply, neither one is able to resist the torture. They also knew it would happen even before they were arrested. Julia tells Winston: "Everyone confesses in the end." The uplifting part of the whole affair is that they still chose to have their fling. Even knowing they couldn't enjoy their romance for long, and that it would end very painfully, they still chose it.
I dont really understand how Winston can continuously think about how life used to be, and hes always wondering if life was always this way. But yet he just continues his life, he doesn't really try to change anything...
ReplyDeleteA darker theme in the book would also have to be that whoever holds the power is usually corrupt. In 1984, Big Brother abuses their power by controlling people and changing people into what they think are fit citizens. They don't care about what the people want or think. The idea of this book is sad because even though it might not resort to having a telescreen in their living room, many places around the world live in constant fear of what to do or think without getting caught.
ReplyDeleteOutstanding, Hannah. You are making great connections between the novel and the world we live in. With any luck humanity will move beyond this sometimes brutal and oppressive phase.
ReplyDeleteKyle, Winston does dare to rebel and have something of a life with Julia. That is an act of resistance. On the other hand, he doesn't try to start a movement or organize the proles, which is what it would take to actually succeed.